[Lee Grzywinski]

Chapter 3 is awesome! “Once you become aware that the main business that you are here for is to know God, most of life’s problems fall into place of their own accord.” I would add that believing it is the key. I always know it, but my actions show what I believe in any given moment. How fickle the mind and how weak the flesh!

I love that his answer to “what…does the activity of knowing God involve?” is so focused on the Word of God. And what a reassurance that “there is no moment when His eye is off me, or His attention distracted from me, and no moment…when His care falters.” Being known by God is such a blessing. What a wonderful application of 1 Corinthians 13:12.

I also encourage you to read the context of Jeremiah 9:24 that Packer uses (you’d really need to read Jeremiah chapters 7-9). It is sobering that God is talking to the nation of Judah, and that He lumps them in with the surrounding nations for not truly knowing Him.

Chapter four’s breakdown of the Second Commandment is very thought-provoking. I like that Packer again brings it back to the Word of God, which, if we know it, will keep us from such “speculative theology, which rests on philosophical reasoning.”

[Matt Aceino]

Sorry for snoozing through the first session.
This book so far is all I’ve/we’ve heard it was. Convicting and motivating all at once.
The biblical basis for chap 3 is all you said Lee.
Chap 4 is a stretch into the possibility of extremes but challenging in the opportunity for mental self examination.
Yes all the thoughts and intents of the human heart are sin all the time but we must be informed by the word to make sure we don’t worship the god of our vain imaginations

[Matt Aceino]

Donna was particularly interested in the caution about using visual,artistic imagery when communicating biblical events to children.
Yes, this drawing or picture is not Jesus. He is impossible to express

[Lilla Langford]

We know someone by how much he has opened up to us. We reveal à bit of ourselves as we share on this forum. God reveals Himself in His création and His word.
I appreciated Packer’s illustration of meeting someone We believe and feel is far superior to us and discovering that person treating us as an intimate, valued friend, enlisting us as His colleagues. And Packer’s painting out that God describes Himself as father, husband, king and Shepherd. And including emotion in our relationship. I tend to mute my emotions whether consciously or unconsciously or both, but I recognize and exquisite inward sense of joy or pain as I reflect on aspects of my life with God and my fellowship créatures.
The chapter on the second commandments was enlightening. I love to watch movies. I recognize that images have power. Certain movie scenes come back into my mind and can produce pleasure or deep chagrin. (Why did I watch that?) I tend to avoid movies that depict Jesus, but it is not just the representations of God, but mental images have power over my thoughts. I recognize that this is something that falls into the category of “denying” self to follow Jesus, but…

[Wes]

God reveals Himself in His création and His word.

Great point – Packer emphasizes that God has shared about himself through the Bible, but there is at least something about God revealed in Creation as well (although it I not enough to “know” him the way we need to).

[Wes]

Chapter 3 – Knowing and Being Known

Packer’s central argument is that the main purpose of every person is to know God, quoting from John 17:3, Jer 9:23-24, and Hos 6:6. He argues that “life’s problems fall into place” once someone becomes aware that this is their purpose (p 34). I don’t disagree that it gives someone the right perspective on life, and I think there is even more that could be said here. If someone were to read this on the surface, they might think “life’s problems will go away”. I think instead he is arguing that our perspective changes, not the context in which we exist. In fact, our problems might become worse or increase when we become a Christian.

From there Packer discusses the definition of “know”. We “know” different people at different depths based on our relationship with them and how much they have decided to share with us their lives. God knows us a “covenant partner” and has shared enough knowledge about himself with us for us to understand him (not fully, but enough). Later he makes the point that it is the fact that God knows us is the important part, and that he knows us in a personal way through grace.

We can only know God through knowing Jesus, and he emphasizes that we know Jesus through the Gospel accounts and the rest of the Bible. Yes, and I would add that we have the Holy Spirit in us, who helps us to understand the Bible and apply it.

[Wes]

Chapter 4 – The Only True God

Here Packer unpacks the second of the 10 commandments. I appreciate his effort in explaining how it is different from the first commandment, in that it focuses on not creating images that represent the true God to worship.

I wonder what Packer would think about the hit show “The Chosen” (I’ve not watched it myself). Does he think illustrated Bibles should not be printed? I think there is a space for illustrations of Biblical stories in teaching, and I actually think they can help us have a more accurate understanding of the events that took place if done correctly, if they accurately present the historical and cultural context. For example, seeing Jesus as a Jewish Middle Eastern man growing up in a poor family gives you a different perspective then some of the paintings of Jesus you might see from later centuries.

I do appreciate his discussion on mental images, and I would also say that at some point we do have a mental image of the man Jesus in our heads, right? If I read the Bible and Jesus is talking to someone in a passage, I have a picture in my mind’s eye on what that looked like. I’m not worshipping that image, but I’m thinking about who he is and what he said. When Jesus says “I am the good shepherd” I get an an image in my head of Jesus being a shepherd. I think he’s more arguing when we get a mental image of God that does not come from the Bible; for example, God is some old man in the clouds looking down on us.

From my perspective, there are other areas related to the second commandment that we overlook here as the Church (big “C” church). Probably the two that I’ve seen the most are: 1) pursuing political power at all costs in the name of God to enact “God’s agenda” and 2) making a god who likes the things I like and hates the things I hate, throwing out or trying to fit Biblical passages to make that work.

[Carolyn Hayes]

I am enjoying the book tremendously. However, I really haven’t read that Packer explains who God is! I don’t think anyone can do that because I believe everyone knows God in his/her own personal way. For instance, I experience God as someone who is constantly looking after me. Whenever I am in a “tizzy” looking for something valuable that I’ve lost, I immediately call upon Jesus saying, “Jesus, You know exactly where my —- is; please help me find it.” And, without skipping a beat, Jesus “unveils it for me. Now, I don’t think Jesus does this for everyone, and certainly not as often as He does it for me because I don’t think anyone misplaces their “valuables” as much as I do! Jesus is constantly helping me out with something. He seems to know exactly what I need – when I need it. I believe KNOWING God is something very personal . . . just as if two people know the same person . . . those two people experience that same person in many different ways. And, I wouldn’t want it any other way. I’m sure there are several people who know me; however, each of the people who know me, know me differently and in different capacities . . . now, let’s take that several steps further so that we can talk about God . . . You may have experienced God as a healer because you may have had a serious illness and you asked God to heal you . . . I have been experiencing knee pain for most of my elderly adult life and I have asked Jesus to heal my knee pain and He hasn’t – I have had praying friends pray for my knees, lay hands on my knees, and no healing has come. Therefore, I don’t know Jesus as a healer. However, I do know Jesus as a friend and a caretaker . . . I do know Jesus is always at my side – watching over me, and making sure that no harm comes my way. I just want everyone, including myself to know that Packer is not going to be able to explain who God is! We are human and God said in Isiah 55:8-9 “My thoughts are nothing like your thoughts,” says the Lord. And My ways are far beyond anything you could imagine. For just as the heavens are higher than the earth, so My ways are higher than your ways and My thoughts higher than your thoughts.” This, in my humble opinion, tells me that Packer will not be able to explain God or tell us who God is or even give us an inkling of “knowing God.” For us humans, God is not really “knowable.” I seriously believe that we can “know about God” through His precious Word. and we can put all that we know together like pieces to a puzzle and use what we know about Him to form a picture in our mind’s eye of who He is. However, I don’t think we will ever really and truly “know Him” until we reach heaven . . . where Jesus will fully reveal Himself to us as our Bridegroom.

[Blanca Saccomanno]

Chapter 3 gives us purpose, we are here to know God. He desires to make himself known. But just like we cannot really know someone unless they allow us to know them, we can’t really know God if all we have is a casual relationship. An intimate relationship is developed over time. Walking together, doing life together, allowing his word to search and convict, and conforming ourselves to what his word requires.

Packer quotes from John 14 which has been a chapter I have often gone to for encouragement and yet it’s also convicting and sobering. Phillip asked Jesus to show them the Father and they would be satisfied, Jesus replied, have I been with you all this time, Phillip and yet you still do not know who I am? ( I almost feel like he was grieved by this request)By now they had spent 3 years with him, eating, sleeping, taught by him, witnessed miracles, he fed them, and yet they still did not know him. Jesus replied, “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father!” It’s encouraging because he’s letting Phillip know that it’s possible to know the Father, Jesus has revealed him, and yet sobering because we can spend years doing “church” and not really know Him.

I have to admit the concept in chapter 4 is not one that I was too familiar with. I mostly associated idolatry with images, statutes, false gods, anything that distracted from true devotion to God. But I can see how images of God can obscure his glory, and convey false ideas about God (45/46). I too thought of shows about Jesus, like the Chosen. I know many are fans and I heard every argument in defense of it but I have also heard some say that because of the Chosen when they close their eyes to pray they picture Jonathan Roumie and it helps them pray. Their knowledge of Jesus, if they’ve never read the Bible, is taken from what is portrayed on the screen. Now, I am not criticizing those who are fans, I’m simply asking if we are getting our theology of Jesus from the Chosen, according to what Packer is saying, is this idolatry? I know this chapter can be a bit radical to most of us but could it be that we have formed a wrong view of God which is not drawn from scripture but by the idols that we have created in order to make him more approachable. Not sure, but a very thought provoking chapter.

[Wes]

I know many are fans and I heard every argument in defense of it but I have also heard some say that because of the Chosen when they close their eyes to pray they picture Jonathan Roumie and it helps them pray.

Great counter example. It could be good for teaching but then it could also lead to this problematic behavior.

[Blanca Saccomanno]

I just want to add, that I agree with the comments that we will never fully know him this side of heaven, we can only know as much as he chooses to reveal. Matthew 11:27

[Nayara Jordan]

I have been reading through John, and it was so timely that this morning’s reading included chapter 17, which Packer quotes at the beginning of chapter 3. It really is the gift and grace of God, that eternal life doesn’t just mean being rescued from hell, but it means to know God and to know Jesus. It returns our focus to the point that the purpose of our lives revolves around relationship with the Father, and this is what comprises a lot of Jesus’ prayer in John 17; the time has come for Jesus to be glorified and reunited with the Father.

It is both humbling and comforting to be reminded regarding our relationship with God: “It is a relationship in which the initiative throughout is with God- as it must be, since God is so completely above us, and we have so completely forfeited all claim on his favor by our sins.” I thank God, that in his abounding grace, he has extended his hand and opened the door to friendship. “I know him because he first knew me,” and because we are known, “no discovery now can disillusion him about me… and quench his determination to bless me.”

“For some unfathomable reason, he wants me as his friend, and desires to be my friend, and has given his Son to die for me in order to realize this purpose.”

[Lynne Mazza-Hilway]

I appreciate being given an extra week to catch up, not only that I was away and didn’t realize we were continuing to read 2 chapters each week, but reading through and seriously considering all the comments also needs some extra time.
Again parallels in so many areas of my walk, God is amazing how He connects things if we keep atune. We’re exploring our histories in our Bible study, which seems challenging for some, but as Packer states, ” one does not know a living thing till one knows it’s past history.” Of course he’s also applying that to our need to know God/Jesus/the Trinity’s history. “Humans keep secrets, don’t show everything in their hearts” and sadly sometimes people even find it challenging to open up fully to God. “What matters supremely is not the fact that I know God but that He knows me. I am graven on the palms of His hands. The width of our knowledge of Him is no gauge of the depth; we can have all the right notions in our heads without tasting in our hearts.” Our part is showing up, drawing close to Him to surrender our attention and interest. He enlists us as colleagues, we’re on His staff. He opens up to us and deals with us.
Which kinda leads to the challenges/questions raised in chapter 4 about whether it’s ok to view images or movies that portray Christ. I totally understand where the danger lies in taking anything to an extreme, substituting reading scripture and communicating with God for His personal revelation to you of His Word and character. But I don’t shorten His hand or power to help me transcend even another’s interpretation of Him in writing. If we get stuck in worshipping the Jesus portrayed in The Chosen, I think that would be a good barometer of where we are in our walk.

[Author]

Posts